116 replies to this topic

[Syllogy]

Across the board, Pulse Lasers are the red-headed stepchild of the Energy Weapon Hardpoint. By this I mean that they weigh more and generate much more heat for a very minor increase in burst damage.

What this change proposes is lower damage and heat per shot across the board for Pulse Lasers, but also dramatically increase their rate of fire to convert them from an Alpha-Strike weapon to a DPS Brawling weapon.

I'd like to see Pulse Lasers overhauled to set themselves apart fromStandard Lasers. Currently. there is more of a reason to use standard lasers than pulse lasers. Biggest reason to use Pulse Lasers is when you happen to have enough extra tonnage on a mech.

By drastically shortening the Cooldown and Duration while adjusting the Damage and Heat generation, we can take advantage of their short range and turn Pulse Lasers into a staple brawling weapon.

For example:

Small Pulse Lasers:

• Damage: 1.5
  
• Heat: 1
  
• Cooldown: 0.5
  
• Range: 80m
  
• Tons: 1
  
• Duration: 0.50
  
• Damage Per Second: 1.50
  
• Heat Per Second: 1

Medium Pulse Lasers

• Damage: 2.5
  
• Heat: 2
  
• Cooldown: 0.5
  
• Range: 180m
  
• Tons: 2
  
• Duration: 0.50
  
• Damage Per Second: 2.50
  
• Heat Per Second: 2

Large Pulse Lasers

• Damage: 4
  
• Heat: 3.5
  
• Cooldown: 0.75
  
• Range: 300m
  
• Tons: 7
  
• Duration: 0.50
  
• Damage Per Second: 3.2
  
• Heat Per Second: 2.8

Heat Per Second doubles the current values, along with Damage per Second on Medium and Large Pulse Lasers with only a 50% increase to DPS on Small Pulse Lasers.


Effectively, we now have 3 very different (and very viable) types of Energy Weapon:

• Low DPS / High Burst Damage/ High Heat Precision Sniping (PPCs, ERPPCs, and ER Large Laser)
  
• Moderate DPS / Burst Damage / Balanced Heat Mid-Range Combat (Standard Lasers)
  
• High DPS / Low Burst Damage / High Heat Brawling (Pulse Lasers)

Current Values For Reference:

Small Laser vs. Small Pulse Laser:

• Damage: 3 vs. 3
  
• Heat: 2 vs. 3
  
• Cooldown: 2.25 vs. 2.25
  
• Range: 90m vs. 90m
  
• Tons: 0.5 vs. 1
  
• Duration: 0.75 vs. 0.50
  
• Damage Per Second: 1 vs. 1.09
  
• Heat Per Second: 0.67 vs. 1.09

Medium Laser vs. Medium Pulse Laser

• Damage: 5 vs. 6
  
• Heat: 4 vs. 5
  
• Cooldown: 3 vs. 3
  
• Range: 270m vs. 180m
  
• Tons: 1 vs. 2
  
• Duration:1 vs. 0.75
  
• Damage Per Second: 1.22 vs. 1.60
  
• Heat Per Second: 1 vs. 1.33

Large Laser vs. Large Pulse Laser

• Damage: 9 vs. 10
  
• Heat: 7 vs. 7.3
  
• Cooldown: 3.25 vs. 3.25
  
• Range: 450m vs. 300m
  
• Tons: 5 vs. 7
  
• Duration: 1 vs. .75
  
• Damage Per Second: 2.12 vs. 2.50
  
• Heat Per Second: 1.65 vs. 1.83

Edited by Syllogy, 22 April 2013 - 01:32 PM.

[General Taskeen]

I don't remember who posted the other pulse thread, perhaps blinkin? Both ideas are similar, and would be welcome.

Basically the MW3 was the best "pulse" like laser of any Mech game ever, and rewarded the player if they carefully watched the laser 'overcharge' bar, letting them fire continuously provided they didn't overheat.

(the mw3 stats)

SPL - 3.3 Heat/Shot - 6 Damage
MPL - 5.0 Heat/Shot - 8 Damage
LPL - 9.1 Heat/Shot - 11 Damage

The heat and damage built up gradually (pulses were delivered in less than a second). So if you fired for 3.5 Seconds, for example, you would get the full heat/shot and damage. But, if you did that, the weapon became "overheated" or "jammed" if you will, thus the player had to wait an additional 3.5 seconds to recycle if that occurred.

Edited by General Taskeen, 22 April 2013 - 02:52 PM.

[blinkin]

General Taskeen, on 22 April 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

I don't remember who posted the other pulse thread, perhaps blinkin? Both ideas are similar, and would be welcome.

no i haven't created any threads about pulse lasers, but i have been strongly advocating one created by focuspark:
http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

the idea in this current thread tends to be a much smaller change than the one suggested by focuspark, but i do find this one to be acceptable as well. honestly any change to make the pulse lasers actually different from standard lasers in a significant way.

[FrostCollar]

Sounds like a great idea! Pulse lasers are awfully dull right now and even the MPL, the best of the pulse lasers, offers only modest benefits over the ML and similar gameplay to it.even in ideal close range conditions.

I've read focuspark's idea, and though it's not bad the extremity of the suggestion makes me a bit leery. Anyways, he's comparing the pulse lasers to MGs, and we've seen what PGI thinks of machine-gun type weapons.

[Capt Cole 117]

Syllogy, on 22 April 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

For example:

Small Pulse Lasers:

• Damage: 1.5
  
• Heat: 1
  
• Cooldown: 0.5
  
• Range: 80m
  
• Tons: 1
  
• Duration: 0.50
  
• Damage Per Second: 1.50
  
• Heat Per Second: 1

Medium Pulse Lasers

• Damage: 2.5
  
• Heat: 2
  
• Cooldown: 0.5
  
• Range: 180m
  
• Tons: 2
  
• Duration: 0.50
  
• Damage Per Second: 2.50
  
• Heat Per Second: 2

Large Pulse Lasers

• Damage: 4
  
• Heat: 3.5
  
• Cooldown: 0.75
  
• Range: 300m
  
• Tons: 7
  
• Duration: 0.50
  
• Damage Per Second: 3.2
  
• Heat Per Second: 2.8

Too heavy and too hot for light mechs. Also these numbers don't make them competitive with other weapons, your LPL weights as much as a PPC but has less dps, more heat per second, and a much shorter range.
Your SPL weights 50% more then a medium laser, has a shorter range, and the same heat per second with only a dps boost of .25 to show for it. So instead of using two SPLs I'd be better off with 3 medium lasers or two medium lasers and a heatsink. Pulse lasers need some love but these numbers won't make people use them.

Edited by Capt Cole 117, 22 April 2013 - 09:07 PM.

[Syllogy]

Capt Cole 117, on 22 April 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

[/list]Too heavy and too hot for light mechs. Also these numbers don't make them competitive with other weapons, your LPL weights as much as a PPC but has less dps, more heat per second, and a much shorter range.
Your SPL weights 50% more then a medium laser, has a shorter range, and the same heat per second with only a dps boost of .25 to show for it. So instead of using two SPLs I'd be better off with 3 medium lasers or two medium lasers and a heatsink. Pulse lasers need some love but these numbers won't make people use them.

I didn't change the weight of any of the weapons. If Pulse Lasers were viable on Light Mechs before, they are even more viable now.

The purpose is to create a different type of operation. Where standard lasers are fired and the suffer a longer cooldown, pulse lasers do less damage per trigger pull, but significantly higher DPS.

[Garth Erlam]

Thanks for the suggestion, forward it goes!

[Tice Daurus]

Hey Syllogy, could you add a fourth choice to the poll? I'd like to see added "Unsure/Need to see in action in live server to make judgement?"

I'm not sure if this would be the right way to go and I'm not fully convinced yes or no, but I would really like to test it out to see what type of noticable differences would be live in order to say one way or the other.

[Syllogy]

Tice Daurus, on 23 April 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

Hey Syllogy, could you add a fourth choice to the poll? I'd like to see added "Unsure/Need to see in action in live server to make judgement?"

I'm not sure if this would be the right way to go and I'm not fully convinced yes or no, but I would really like to test it out to see what type of noticable differences would be live in order to say one way or the other.

That's why I posted the example. The general idea is to create a different genre of weapon in the energy category that doesn't encourage sniping or Alpha Striking.

The numbers are definitely something that would need to be tested and balanced, but I believe that the spirit of the change is what is being voted on.

[blinkin]

Syllogy, on 23 April 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

That's why I posted the example. The general idea is to create a different genre of weapon in the energy category that doesn't encourage sniping or Alpha Striking.

The numbers are definitely something that would need to be tested and balanced, but I believe that the spirit of the change is what is being voted on.

the problem is that often people think they are voting on the numbers you listed. that is why i always slap a disclaimer on all of my suggestion posts that basically says that the numbers are not important and the primary concern is the core idea.

[Tice Daurus]

Syllogy, on 23 April 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

That's why I posted the example. The general idea is to create a different genre of weapon in the energy category that doesn't encourage sniping or Alpha Striking.

The numbers are definitely something that would need to be tested and balanced, but I believe that the spirit of the change is what is being voted on.

blinkin, on 23 April 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

the problem is that often people think they are voting on the numbers you listed. that is why i always slap a disclaimer on all of my suggestion posts that basically says that the numbers are not important and the primary concern is the core idea.

Agree with both of you so in that case...you get a yes vote then. I'd like to see this happen and test it out.

[General Taskeen]

Garth Erlam, on 23 April 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

Thanks for the suggestion, forward it goes!

Holy smokes guys. Pulse lasers may actually become unique.

I pray.

Tice Daurus, on 23 April 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

Hey Syllogy, could you add a fourth choice to the poll? I'd like to see added "Unsure/Need to see in action in live server to make judgement?"

I'm not sure if this would be the right way to go and I'm not fully convinced yes or no, but I would really like to test it out to see what type of noticable differences would be live in order to say one way or the other.

That is exactly why PGI should implement "live" test servers where the players, pgi testers, and devs test out any iterative weapon balance changes made per week, or whatever, separate from the beta servers. Technically we are "testing" in the beta servers, but its not really the same, since we can't provide direct feedback to a change made weekly or even bi-weekly for internal testing.

Edited by General Taskeen, 23 April 2013 - 10:50 AM.

[blinkin]

General Taskeen, on 23 April 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

That is exactly why PGI should implement "live" test servers where the players, pgi testers, and devs test out any iterative weapon balance changes made per week, or whatever, separate from the beta servers. Technically we are "testing" in the beta servers, but its not really the same, since we can't provide direct feedback to a change made weekly or even bi-weekly for internal testing.

you have far more faith in the general populace than i do. i have met plenty of these people on the forums and am very thoroughly convinced that many of them should have absolutely nothing to do with any sort of decision process.

[Dinre]

Just putting in my vote: DO THIS! There is currently no reason to choose pulse over regular lasers. That alone is reason enough to tweak.

[Deathlike]

TBH, I like the pulse lasers as is... as a anti-light and hit and run weapon (only slightly better than regular lasers)... making it more of a "stream of laser fire" would have to make me rethink its value.

I will say this... with respect to pulse lasers

In MW2, pulse lasers were literally "the laser MGs", since you needed a few pulse lasers and you essentially had a near instant/constant laser fire weapon... which in many ways were superior to regular lasers (which were generally ER lasers).

In MW3, pulse lasers are kinda like the current lasers we have now... the difference is that the length of fire also dictated the length of cooldown. This was a cool concept.

In MW4, pulse lasers were... probably almost irrelevant. The damage dealt was kinda relatively scaled to their regular laser brother, except it was hotter and unfortunately did overall less damage. Considering that the game primarily skewed towards just the Large Laser and the PPC... plus the game rewarded cover significantly... that benefits of having a low cooldown was inconsequential.

To date, I have said that LPL should really just get a range boost, with the MPL and SPL needing slight rebalancing of some sort (SPL needing more love because it is compared to the SL and ML).

[Hotthedd]

I am all for a DPS tweak to the pulse lasers, and REALLY like the idea that there would be basically three types of energy weapons to choose from, however, (at least as far as MPulse lasers go), the d.p.s. is appreciable over Med. Lasers against fast moving targets.

[General Taskeen]

blinkin, on 23 April 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

you have far more faith in the general populace than i do. i have met plenty of these people on the forums and am very thoroughly convinced that many of them should have absolutely nothing to do with any sort of decision process.

It should be an opt-in, opt-out, where PGI decides who is on the test server.

[Zyllos]

Just an FYI, from what I can tell, this suggestion is to change the cooldown to 0 and only have to deal with beam duration. That means they would fire for 0.5s and immediately fire again for 0.5s if the button is pressed. This is different from a machine gun which has a RoF of 10, thus you can hold the button down for 0.2s and get 2 machine gun shots off.

I like this "idea" but the implementation seems off or wierd.

Currently, if you wanted continuous stream of fire, you equipped multiple of a weapon and chain fired each to match the cooldown of the first weapon fired. This controls heat and allows for continuous damage.

With this change to pulse lasers, equipping multiple pulse lasers does nothing in controlling heat. If your wanting a continuous beam of damage, you only need to equip one and hold the button down.

But, this does allow each weapon to control damage in regards to heat by upping the amount of weapons being fired. Double the heat for double the damage, still being continuous.

I am trying to see how this would change my current setups which use pulse lasers:

CDA-2A
2x Small Pulse Laser
1x Large Pulse Laser

Normally I chain fire the small pulse lasers along with throwing a large pulse laser shot to control heat. But with the new implementation, there would be no reason to do this. What it would turn into is 2 continuous beams of small pulse laser fire with some large pulse laser fire thrown in when damage/heat is needed/handled.

Interestingly, I could continuously fire a small pulse laser indefinitely. But, firing the large pulse laser would bring up my heat, especially in conjunction with the small pulse lasers. But that is really no different than now, I can fire the two small pulse lasers indefinitely, it's just when I fire them, my heat increases then decreases back to zero before the CD ends on the weapons.

CN9-D
1x LBX/10
1x LRM/10 + Artemis IV
2x Medium Pulse Lasers

Again, this new implementation would make it where I would go from chain firing to alpha striking the lasers continuously. It would be hard to tell the full impact on heat for doing this. I would also be temped to remove 1 of the medium pulse lasers because I can continuously fire one of them and thats all I need. The reason for equipping two in the first place was to chain fire them for continuous pulse laser fire.

HGN-733P
1x ER-PPC
1x Large Pulse Laser
2x Medium Pulse Lasers
1x LRM/20 + Artemis IV
1x SRM/6 + Artemis IV

I think this mech would have the greatest change with this implementation. At long range, I fire the PPC and LRM/20 until I get close. Then I swap over to the Large Pulse Laser, 2x Medium Pulse Lasers, and SRM/6. With the change, that Large Pulse Laser would do extremely well being as a single weapon but the 2x Medium Pulse Lasers would be tougher to use. Again, I would be tempted to remove one of the Medium Pulse Lasers but I would need to test this out.

Initially, this suggestion looks good. It would make Pulse Lasers feel completely different. They would play completely different. That would seperate them from normal or ER lasers, thats for sure.

Edited by Zyllos, 23 April 2013 - 01:25 PM.

[Demos]

OP: Like your idea, but the DPS/DHS is way too high... The cooldown should be longer.
Like SPL: 0.5, MPL 1.0 and LPL 1.5; burn rate 0.5 each.
Damage of LPL increased to 5.

Edited by Demos, 23 April 2013 - 01:34 PM.

[MasterErrant]

I use plulse lasers all the time they are good weapons.

the only change I'd like to see is for them to roll back to the original format...basicaly continuous fire with the need to stop only because of heat.

the original lpl could fire as many pulses as you wanted in a turn at two heat per. ten pulses twenty damage twenty heat. they were fantastic.

(battledroids rules republished in a gaming Magazine White swarf I think. and vetted by a letter to fasa)

Edited by MasterErrant, 01 May 2013 - 10:41 AM.